Is homosexuality bad? Isn't it just another sin? It's being accepted in society so why not the church?
As bad I assume you mean a sin. As Christians we have to look at things through God's eyes, we are to put on the mind of Christ and strive to be like Him. As far as sin, yes it is. In the bible, God detested homosexuality as a sin punishable by death due to their own actions. To say that one sin is worse that another is partly right, which also means that’s its partly wrong. God did prescribe different punishments for different sins according to His law, but all were severe. Some were put to death, some were cast away from the others and some made sterile. But we see that in the NT that, sin is sin. And that the wages of sin is death. There is no scale that measures the severity of the sin, whether a lie or murder. Man has set up the scale in his laws that places severity on crimes, and since most are sins described in the bible then most times we apply them to our lives and our relationship with God. And the only way out of sin and for forgiveness of sins is through the shed blood of Christ Jesus.
We always hear that we are to hate the sin and love the sinner. As Christians we are very quick to accept a sin with the sinner by confusing it with love. We love the sinner by sharing the Gospel message with the lost to bring them to the knowledge of Christ. And we love our brethren that fall into sin by lifting them up and showing them the errors of their ways and help to guide them back on the paths of righteousness. Those things that God says is wrong cannot be accepted by the body of Christ, we must stand on the word of God. We have been quick to accept people that continue to live in sin (all sins) into the churches and tolerate them all in the "Love of God". But how can we justify accepting and condoning what God condemns. God cannot and does not waver, He does not condone and condemn an act in His word at the same time.
Many Christians have fallen into the government trap (probably not the best word to use). When something is accepted by the government they include it into their beliefs. When a group is liberated and given rights they will go out of their way to accept them (not meaning gender, race or disabilities). But the government is not the church, the constitution is not the word of God. The bible is not added to or taken away from, because of a supreme court decision, or a congressional action. The bible is firm and we have to accept it for what it is, God's written Word. It shows how God dealt with situations throughout the history of man. It shows the very character and nature of God, and through it we know what God expects and accepts.
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
In Leviticus 18 there is a list of sexual sins, these were set forth by God and given to man. And in Leviticus 20 there is a list of punishments for those sexual sins.
Many people see these verses and try to rationalize them in their own minds. They say "That was a part of the law and it was done away with in Christ". They dismiss the OT as a part of the past that doesn't apply to us. But God is the same now as He was then, and He will continue to be the same from now on. What He considered wrong then, is still wrong today and tomorrow.
Romans 1:20-27
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1 Cor. 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
In the above verses, where Paul writes to the Corintians, he gives a list of the unrighteous and their actions. He says that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If you notice he says "such were some of you" before you recieved the gift of God through Christ Jesus. Those things that are prevailent in the world among the sinners have no place among the children of God. God's desire is to bring men into His presence through His Grace, and that man will depart from the ways of the world that will condemn them. God wants to heal man and bring Him into fellowship, but only if man asks for it. But many times man will turn away from the truth to live a lie in the world. Knowing the truth, they continue to live a lifestyle approved by the world and considered unrighteous by God.
Most Christians are not homophobic, but just trying to share the message of Christ to a lost and sinful world.
Wednesday, March 30, 2011
Faithfulness
Faithfulness
Galatians 5:22,23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Faithfulness is importance coupled with commitment. A person is faithful only to what he/she feels is truly important. His commitment can only extend to what he/she sees is worthy of his/her time. Usually we are committed to something in our lives that we see as important and are faithful to it. And even though we do have to have a certain commitment towards things like our spouse or girlfriend, our job or school and our families, we have to be careful what we place in that number one position. What we place as the most important thing in our lives will show everything about us. If it is our spouse then people see us as a devoted husband or wife, if our job then we are seen as a loyal employee and if in our families then we are seen as a committed family man or woman. If we place our importance on any one of these things, then we can find other areas lacking and this can lead to trouble, as most have experienced first hand.
If you put your spouse as the most important thing in your life, then your job can suffer. If you place your job as most important, then your marriage and family can suffer. If you place sports or other outside activities, such as video games or hanging out above school work, then your grades can suffer. We can destroy areas in our lives by placing one area above another, by making it our one focus and devoting our time to it. Lives have been shattered, families left in ruins, marriages torn apart and jobs lost because of a commitment in another area.
As Christians the most important person in our lives should be Jesus Christ. If we place Him above all else, are faithful to Him and make a commitment to Him then it will effect other areas of our lives. We will be devoted, loyal and committed to our spouses, jobs and families. If we place Jesus first, then we can allow the Spirit to work in our lives; then it will change the way we think, the way we act and the way we speak. When we allow the Spirit of God to be active through us, then we will present ourselves in the manner that is pleasing unto Him in all other areas of our lives. But it has to start by being committed to Jesus Christ. It starts with faithfulness to the One that has given us life eternal. It starts with getting your priorities straight and placing Jesus first.
Galatians 5:22,23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Faithfulness is importance coupled with commitment. A person is faithful only to what he/she feels is truly important. His commitment can only extend to what he/she sees is worthy of his/her time. Usually we are committed to something in our lives that we see as important and are faithful to it. And even though we do have to have a certain commitment towards things like our spouse or girlfriend, our job or school and our families, we have to be careful what we place in that number one position. What we place as the most important thing in our lives will show everything about us. If it is our spouse then people see us as a devoted husband or wife, if our job then we are seen as a loyal employee and if in our families then we are seen as a committed family man or woman. If we place our importance on any one of these things, then we can find other areas lacking and this can lead to trouble, as most have experienced first hand.
If you put your spouse as the most important thing in your life, then your job can suffer. If you place your job as most important, then your marriage and family can suffer. If you place sports or other outside activities, such as video games or hanging out above school work, then your grades can suffer. We can destroy areas in our lives by placing one area above another, by making it our one focus and devoting our time to it. Lives have been shattered, families left in ruins, marriages torn apart and jobs lost because of a commitment in another area.
As Christians the most important person in our lives should be Jesus Christ. If we place Him above all else, are faithful to Him and make a commitment to Him then it will effect other areas of our lives. We will be devoted, loyal and committed to our spouses, jobs and families. If we place Jesus first, then we can allow the Spirit to work in our lives; then it will change the way we think, the way we act and the way we speak. When we allow the Spirit of God to be active through us, then we will present ourselves in the manner that is pleasing unto Him in all other areas of our lives. But it has to start by being committed to Jesus Christ. It starts with faithfulness to the One that has given us life eternal. It starts with getting your priorities straight and placing Jesus first.
Emotions in Heaven Again!
Even as Christians, while we are here on the Earth, we are subject to emotions. What sets us apart are our actions toward the causes of those emotions.
To be subject to our emotions, is to be controlled by these emotions and to react according to the emotions, hence our emotional responses.
ACTION causes EMOTION, EMOTION causes ACTION
Emotions are a reaction to a specific circumstance or action toward us. And because of that emotion we respond with an action, and that action is according to whether or not we allow to be controlled by the Spirit or the flesh. Remember the flesh wars against the Spirit.
When we get angry because of any reason we can respond either in the flesh or through the Spirit. Through the flesh it can be through revenge or downgrading and gossiping to hurt the one that made you angry. Through the Spirit you would deal with it differently. When we are saddened or sorrowful for any reason we either respond through the flesh or through the Spirit. The same goes with any emotion we may experience our response is either through the flesh or through the Spirit. As a Christian our responses should be through the Spirit, but even I am not naive enough to believe that is always the case. Even Christians can be subject to fleshly emotional responses.
The reason I believe that we will not have to deal with emotions or emotional responses in heaven, is because there will be no situations that cause the same emotions we feel in the flesh present there. that is why I feel only those things that are present through the Spirit of God will be present in heaven. If someone receives a reward in heaven that we don't, how will we respond? will we get mad? if we get angry, how will we respond? curse the person out or punch them? complain to God? I still believe we will show joy for their work for the cause of Christ, not get mad or upset.
I was just thinking (scary huh!) that many say that we are patterned after God (made in His image). And that God showed emotions and also Jesus showed emotions while here on Earth. One emotion would be anger, we can see in the bible where it was shown many times. God showed anger only toward sin. When Jesus was angry it was because of sin. It was a Godly anger. We should be angry at sin or anything that degrades our God and Savior, but should deal with it through the Spirit and not the flesh. But many confessing Christians have dealt with sin through the flesh by murder and destruction (abortion clinics for example and the people who run them), and try to justify it because of Gods actions. Many confessing Christians have tried to justify hatred through the bible because of the way God felt towards certain sins or actions, against Him and His word. If this is the case and God showed anger toward sin that was directed against Him, should not our anger only be toward sin aimed at God and not causes against us. And if anger is an emotion directed toward sin, would there be anger in heaven since there would be no sin there?
To be subject to our emotions, is to be controlled by these emotions and to react according to the emotions, hence our emotional responses.
ACTION causes EMOTION, EMOTION causes ACTION
Emotions are a reaction to a specific circumstance or action toward us. And because of that emotion we respond with an action, and that action is according to whether or not we allow to be controlled by the Spirit or the flesh. Remember the flesh wars against the Spirit.
When we get angry because of any reason we can respond either in the flesh or through the Spirit. Through the flesh it can be through revenge or downgrading and gossiping to hurt the one that made you angry. Through the Spirit you would deal with it differently. When we are saddened or sorrowful for any reason we either respond through the flesh or through the Spirit. The same goes with any emotion we may experience our response is either through the flesh or through the Spirit. As a Christian our responses should be through the Spirit, but even I am not naive enough to believe that is always the case. Even Christians can be subject to fleshly emotional responses.
The reason I believe that we will not have to deal with emotions or emotional responses in heaven, is because there will be no situations that cause the same emotions we feel in the flesh present there. that is why I feel only those things that are present through the Spirit of God will be present in heaven. If someone receives a reward in heaven that we don't, how will we respond? will we get mad? if we get angry, how will we respond? curse the person out or punch them? complain to God? I still believe we will show joy for their work for the cause of Christ, not get mad or upset.
I was just thinking (scary huh!) that many say that we are patterned after God (made in His image). And that God showed emotions and also Jesus showed emotions while here on Earth. One emotion would be anger, we can see in the bible where it was shown many times. God showed anger only toward sin. When Jesus was angry it was because of sin. It was a Godly anger. We should be angry at sin or anything that degrades our God and Savior, but should deal with it through the Spirit and not the flesh. But many confessing Christians have dealt with sin through the flesh by murder and destruction (abortion clinics for example and the people who run them), and try to justify it because of Gods actions. Many confessing Christians have tried to justify hatred through the bible because of the way God felt towards certain sins or actions, against Him and His word. If this is the case and God showed anger toward sin that was directed against Him, should not our anger only be toward sin aimed at God and not causes against us. And if anger is an emotion directed toward sin, would there be anger in heaven since there would be no sin there?
Emotions in Heaven
The concept biblically is actually quite simple, at least to me. As people we operate in emotional responses to things that happen around us. These are categorized into two different groups. Primary and secondary emotions, we also have their responses. These emotions operate in the flesh, and can lead to sin. We try to classify some of the fruits of the Spirit as emotions when in a Christians life they are not emotions, but the Holy Spirit acting through us. There is a very distinct difference on the way we act and the way we handle ourselves before we accept Jesus and afterwards. Before we accept Christ we are unrighteous and the bible tells us that we act accordingly. After we receive Christ and are indwelled with the Holy Spirit we are a new creature. The Holy Spirit can work through us and these fruits are not emotional responses but are a part of our life, and will remain active through us as long as we allow the Spirit of God to work through us and not grieve the Spirit and withdraw from God.
Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
As Christians we allow the fruits of the Spirit to be manifest through us and through our lives, and these fruits hold our fleshly emotions and actions in check, as long as we allow them to. Love, this type of love is not the same as we see love in the flesh, but is pure love. A love that commands our actions towards others, the kind of love that would make one man give his life for another. We cannot truly understand true love apart from the spirit of God. This kind of love is reflected through us toward others as Gods love was shown to us through Christ. It will permeate through our actions and in our relationships with others. This is not an emotion but is God working through us. The same as with joy, peace and the others. We have joy not because of an emotional response but because it is through the Holy Spirit that is within us. We have peace through the Holy Spirit, not because that peace is through an emotional response but because it comes through the Spirit.
In heaven those things that control or guide us in the flesh will not be in heaven. They are not to be active in a Child of God, here on Earth, if he or she is walking in the Spirit. We are to have a new mindset, the mind of Christ. And we let the Spirit of God work through us.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 1:26-31
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Emotions can lead to actions and actions can lead to sin. Look at the above lists and see what people do not inherit the kingdom of God, according to Paul. Which of these above are not brought forth by an emotional response? We can list the emotions that cause most of these lust, hatred, jealousy, envy, coveting, fear, sadness, pride, and the list can go on. If these people that do these things and are called by their actions, according to Paul, will not inherit the kingdom of God or are considered vile affections. Are we to consider for even a moment that they will be allowed into heaven?
Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Death brings sorrow and sorrow brings crying. Death is the cause of an emotional response, sorrow is the emotion caused by a death (could also be considered sadness, grief or anguish) and the action of crying is the response to the emotion caused by a death.
We can see this in other actions above. While we are in the flesh, almost every action is caused by an emotional response. Murder, adultery, fornication, debate, just to name a few, are brought about by emotional responses. If we walk according to the fruits of the Spirit we would not fall to the lusts of the flesh. As we walk in the Spirit we will not allow our emotions to cause us to fall for the temptations that lead to sin.
Sometimes a child of God confuses emotions with the fruits of the Spirit and conviction by the Holy Spirit. When we sin and repent its not because of an emotional response, but because we are convicted by the Holy Spirit of God. We do feel a sadness because of the sin, but we repent not because of that sadness but because we know what is right and are led by the Spirit to do so according to the word of God. The pull of the flesh is strong in our lives and there will be a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit. And one of the ways the flesh pulls us is by our emotions, when people make us mad or we see a girl in a bikini, our first response is usually in the flesh. But when we are led by the Spirit we are convicted because of our fleshly response, and we repent.
I feel that joy through the Spirit may be seen as an emotion here on the Earth (through a Christian laughing or smiling all the time, which is not an emotion but a response to that joy through the Spirit), much the same as love or peace may be, it is a fruit of the Spirit that is shown through us as we allow it to be. Although the same way that we allow the fruits of the Spirit to work through us and be seen through a Christian, the same can be said of a person that allows emotions to show through the flesh. It shows the type of person you are and want to be.
This is why I feel we will not be guided by our emotions in heaven and should not be here on Earth, but by the fruits of the Spirit which are of God.
Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
As Christians we allow the fruits of the Spirit to be manifest through us and through our lives, and these fruits hold our fleshly emotions and actions in check, as long as we allow them to. Love, this type of love is not the same as we see love in the flesh, but is pure love. A love that commands our actions towards others, the kind of love that would make one man give his life for another. We cannot truly understand true love apart from the spirit of God. This kind of love is reflected through us toward others as Gods love was shown to us through Christ. It will permeate through our actions and in our relationships with others. This is not an emotion but is God working through us. The same as with joy, peace and the others. We have joy not because of an emotional response but because it is through the Holy Spirit that is within us. We have peace through the Holy Spirit, not because that peace is through an emotional response but because it comes through the Spirit.
In heaven those things that control or guide us in the flesh will not be in heaven. They are not to be active in a Child of God, here on Earth, if he or she is walking in the Spirit. We are to have a new mindset, the mind of Christ. And we let the Spirit of God work through us.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 1:26-31
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Emotions can lead to actions and actions can lead to sin. Look at the above lists and see what people do not inherit the kingdom of God, according to Paul. Which of these above are not brought forth by an emotional response? We can list the emotions that cause most of these lust, hatred, jealousy, envy, coveting, fear, sadness, pride, and the list can go on. If these people that do these things and are called by their actions, according to Paul, will not inherit the kingdom of God or are considered vile affections. Are we to consider for even a moment that they will be allowed into heaven?
Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Death brings sorrow and sorrow brings crying. Death is the cause of an emotional response, sorrow is the emotion caused by a death (could also be considered sadness, grief or anguish) and the action of crying is the response to the emotion caused by a death.
We can see this in other actions above. While we are in the flesh, almost every action is caused by an emotional response. Murder, adultery, fornication, debate, just to name a few, are brought about by emotional responses. If we walk according to the fruits of the Spirit we would not fall to the lusts of the flesh. As we walk in the Spirit we will not allow our emotions to cause us to fall for the temptations that lead to sin.
Sometimes a child of God confuses emotions with the fruits of the Spirit and conviction by the Holy Spirit. When we sin and repent its not because of an emotional response, but because we are convicted by the Holy Spirit of God. We do feel a sadness because of the sin, but we repent not because of that sadness but because we know what is right and are led by the Spirit to do so according to the word of God. The pull of the flesh is strong in our lives and there will be a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit. And one of the ways the flesh pulls us is by our emotions, when people make us mad or we see a girl in a bikini, our first response is usually in the flesh. But when we are led by the Spirit we are convicted because of our fleshly response, and we repent.
I feel that joy through the Spirit may be seen as an emotion here on the Earth (through a Christian laughing or smiling all the time, which is not an emotion but a response to that joy through the Spirit), much the same as love or peace may be, it is a fruit of the Spirit that is shown through us as we allow it to be. Although the same way that we allow the fruits of the Spirit to work through us and be seen through a Christian, the same can be said of a person that allows emotions to show through the flesh. It shows the type of person you are and want to be.
This is why I feel we will not be guided by our emotions in heaven and should not be here on Earth, but by the fruits of the Spirit which are of God.
Christmas Story
Luke 2:10-11
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
Every Christmas, in churches all over the US and throughout the world, a message is preached about the nativity. It is a message that more than a few preachers can't wait to preach. And has probably been heard by more people than about the crucifixion. I say this because there have been cartoons, movies and books, Christmas cards, pictures and songs that talk about the birth of Jesus that has exposed many to this spectacular event. Not to mention that many people only go to church a few times during the year and Christmas is one of those times. We like hearing about the angel coming to Mary and Joseph and about Elizabeth and Zachariah and about the birth of Jesus. But the birth is not the most important thing we can focus on at this time of the year.
In the verse above after Jesus was born an angel appeared to the shepherds in the fields and told them of the birth. In short the angel said to them ' I have good news for everyone, because today your Savior the Messiah has been born.' It was like telling them that prophecy was being fulfilled. We place so much emphasis on the birth that many times even preachers loose sight of the real meaning. Its more than just the baby Jesus being born in a stable and laid in a manger. But its about the Savior of the world being here among us. The birth, and all of what led up to it, was prophecy being fulfilled that showed who Jesus was. And it is important that we know of the birth and all that pertained to it, but more important that we know the whole story.
As you read through the books that make up the New Testament you find records of the birth in only two of these books, Matthew and Luke, and you never hear of them again. Does that mean its not important? no, it is very important but not as important as the crucifixion. Without Jesus death, the birth would mean nothing. All through His life, the miracles, the teachings and all the good He did, mean nothing without the cross. Why is the birth not recorded in the writings of Paul and the other Apostles? because it is not important to salvation. Paul said that he preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified, buried and risen from the dead on the third day. These are the things important to salvation. The things that happened in Jesus' life fulfilled prophecy and gave witness to who He was, just as the angels told the shepherds, Christ the Lord.
It's hard for us to picture Jesus laying in a manger and trying to understand that His only purpose for being born was to die a cruel death. That He was sent here to the earth for the express purpose of dying on a cross for our sins. As Jesus lay in that manger He only had a life that was going to last 33 years on the earth. But He was going to live forever, at the right hand of the Father, in heaven. That when Mary brought Him into the world, it was His first step on the road to the cross.
People have placed so much emphasis on the birth and the miracles that surround Jesus' life, it sometimes overpowers the real meaning of the Gospel because it puts our focus elsewhere. The virgin birth is important but it doesn't save, His first miracle at Cana was important but it doesn't save, Jesus calming the storm and walking on water was important but they do not save and even the healing of the sick and raising people from the dead is important but they don't save.
Christmas is more than just baby Jesus laying in a manger wrapped in swaddling clothes, deprived of the comforts of a house to be born in. Its about our Savior coming to earth to die for our sins. Its about salvation being given to a lost and dying world. Its about the Son of God, Jesus, that died on a cross 33 years later, so that we could have a relationship with God and receive life.
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
Every Christmas, in churches all over the US and throughout the world, a message is preached about the nativity. It is a message that more than a few preachers can't wait to preach. And has probably been heard by more people than about the crucifixion. I say this because there have been cartoons, movies and books, Christmas cards, pictures and songs that talk about the birth of Jesus that has exposed many to this spectacular event. Not to mention that many people only go to church a few times during the year and Christmas is one of those times. We like hearing about the angel coming to Mary and Joseph and about Elizabeth and Zachariah and about the birth of Jesus. But the birth is not the most important thing we can focus on at this time of the year.
In the verse above after Jesus was born an angel appeared to the shepherds in the fields and told them of the birth. In short the angel said to them ' I have good news for everyone, because today your Savior the Messiah has been born.' It was like telling them that prophecy was being fulfilled. We place so much emphasis on the birth that many times even preachers loose sight of the real meaning. Its more than just the baby Jesus being born in a stable and laid in a manger. But its about the Savior of the world being here among us. The birth, and all of what led up to it, was prophecy being fulfilled that showed who Jesus was. And it is important that we know of the birth and all that pertained to it, but more important that we know the whole story.
As you read through the books that make up the New Testament you find records of the birth in only two of these books, Matthew and Luke, and you never hear of them again. Does that mean its not important? no, it is very important but not as important as the crucifixion. Without Jesus death, the birth would mean nothing. All through His life, the miracles, the teachings and all the good He did, mean nothing without the cross. Why is the birth not recorded in the writings of Paul and the other Apostles? because it is not important to salvation. Paul said that he preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified, buried and risen from the dead on the third day. These are the things important to salvation. The things that happened in Jesus' life fulfilled prophecy and gave witness to who He was, just as the angels told the shepherds, Christ the Lord.
It's hard for us to picture Jesus laying in a manger and trying to understand that His only purpose for being born was to die a cruel death. That He was sent here to the earth for the express purpose of dying on a cross for our sins. As Jesus lay in that manger He only had a life that was going to last 33 years on the earth. But He was going to live forever, at the right hand of the Father, in heaven. That when Mary brought Him into the world, it was His first step on the road to the cross.
People have placed so much emphasis on the birth and the miracles that surround Jesus' life, it sometimes overpowers the real meaning of the Gospel because it puts our focus elsewhere. The virgin birth is important but it doesn't save, His first miracle at Cana was important but it doesn't save, Jesus calming the storm and walking on water was important but they do not save and even the healing of the sick and raising people from the dead is important but they don't save.
Christmas is more than just baby Jesus laying in a manger wrapped in swaddling clothes, deprived of the comforts of a house to be born in. Its about our Savior coming to earth to die for our sins. Its about salvation being given to a lost and dying world. Its about the Son of God, Jesus, that died on a cross 33 years later, so that we could have a relationship with God and receive life.
Christian Rules
Why are there so many rules for Christians? If God is going to forgive why have rules?
It seems to me that many of the posts encourage a secular philosophy of "anything goes". Being a Christian goes farther than just accepting Christ and continuing your day to day routine. There are things recorded in the scriptures that instruct us in living in Christ. Through the study of scripture we learn what is acceptable for living a Christian life. As a Christian we do have guidelines or rules that are set forth for us through the scriptures so that we can grow in grace. This comes through study, discipleship and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us according to the scriptures.
I understand that many are scared of rules because it infringes on individual freedoms and can hinder social lives of many people. Many want to hang onto their past and to continue living in the world while trying to be a part of the religious crowd on Sundays and Holidays. The problem is God doesn't want to share you with the world and you as a Christian have become His, payed for with a price. As a Christian you can do what you want. You can ignore scripture and live like the devil but is it justified by scripture? You can ignore everything that has been written and never get beyond walking down the aisle and praying with the preacher. But God wants you to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Many rules imposed by churches are not about Christianity but about denominational rules; haircuts, wearing dresses, women wearing makeup. These rules don't help Christians to grow in knowledge but can hinder them in their growth.
[It misses the main point of Christianity. It isn't about what we should and shouldn't do, it is about following Jesus.]
The main point of Christianity is to have a relationship with the true and living God through the person of Jesus Christ. It is based upon what God has done through Jesus Christ.
There are guidelines or rules throughout the NT, from the Gospels on, that have been ignored for years under the knowledge that God is a forgiving God and He knows we will fall. Why do we fall through sin? through disobedience. But if there is no rules how can we fall? if there are no rules how do we know what is sin.
Society has rules, as an American I am subject to rules of our nation. Do I know all the rules? no. Since I don't know all the rules am I subject to the rules I do not know? yes. If an immigrant becomes a citizen of this country and the next day breaks one of the rules that is in place, is he responsible even if he didn't know the rule existed? yes. Who's fault is it? his. He is not pardoned because of ignorance of the law, Its his responsibility to learn the rules of the society he is a part of.
As Christians we have scripture that gives us rules to live by. New Christians are just as subject as older mature Christians to learn and live by these. We grow by learning what these are and applying this knowledge to our lives. To be more like Jesus we have to walk in His precepts.
[When it comes to drinking, swearing, and sex, I think the main question one should ask is, am I being as pure as I can be? Am I glorifying God in my body and mind? Am I acting like I am a temple of the living God?] Linda
Exactly Linda, our bodies are a temple of God. To ignore the scriptures we are negating the fact that we belong to God, for His use and His purposes. We are no longer our own person but a new creature in Christ Jesus. We are to live to serve and to please Him.
1 Cor. 6:19-20
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified . For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
We don't have less of a life as a Christian, even with rules, but we have a more abundant life.
It seems to me that many of the posts encourage a secular philosophy of "anything goes". Being a Christian goes farther than just accepting Christ and continuing your day to day routine. There are things recorded in the scriptures that instruct us in living in Christ. Through the study of scripture we learn what is acceptable for living a Christian life. As a Christian we do have guidelines or rules that are set forth for us through the scriptures so that we can grow in grace. This comes through study, discipleship and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us according to the scriptures.
I understand that many are scared of rules because it infringes on individual freedoms and can hinder social lives of many people. Many want to hang onto their past and to continue living in the world while trying to be a part of the religious crowd on Sundays and Holidays. The problem is God doesn't want to share you with the world and you as a Christian have become His, payed for with a price. As a Christian you can do what you want. You can ignore scripture and live like the devil but is it justified by scripture? You can ignore everything that has been written and never get beyond walking down the aisle and praying with the preacher. But God wants you to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Many rules imposed by churches are not about Christianity but about denominational rules; haircuts, wearing dresses, women wearing makeup. These rules don't help Christians to grow in knowledge but can hinder them in their growth.
[It misses the main point of Christianity. It isn't about what we should and shouldn't do, it is about following Jesus.]
The main point of Christianity is to have a relationship with the true and living God through the person of Jesus Christ. It is based upon what God has done through Jesus Christ.
There are guidelines or rules throughout the NT, from the Gospels on, that have been ignored for years under the knowledge that God is a forgiving God and He knows we will fall. Why do we fall through sin? through disobedience. But if there is no rules how can we fall? if there are no rules how do we know what is sin.
Society has rules, as an American I am subject to rules of our nation. Do I know all the rules? no. Since I don't know all the rules am I subject to the rules I do not know? yes. If an immigrant becomes a citizen of this country and the next day breaks one of the rules that is in place, is he responsible even if he didn't know the rule existed? yes. Who's fault is it? his. He is not pardoned because of ignorance of the law, Its his responsibility to learn the rules of the society he is a part of.
As Christians we have scripture that gives us rules to live by. New Christians are just as subject as older mature Christians to learn and live by these. We grow by learning what these are and applying this knowledge to our lives. To be more like Jesus we have to walk in His precepts.
[When it comes to drinking, swearing, and sex, I think the main question one should ask is, am I being as pure as I can be? Am I glorifying God in my body and mind? Am I acting like I am a temple of the living God?] Linda
Exactly Linda, our bodies are a temple of God. To ignore the scriptures we are negating the fact that we belong to God, for His use and His purposes. We are no longer our own person but a new creature in Christ Jesus. We are to live to serve and to please Him.
1 Cor. 6:19-20
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified . For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
We don't have less of a life as a Christian, even with rules, but we have a more abundant life.
Carnal Christians
Carnal Christians
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
When reading this verse, I thought about the people that I see all the time. Many at my church, that I see daily and some in here. Although I don't agree totally with the term "Carnal Christians" I do see where many people do fit the description of a carnal minded Christian.
Many people walk down and shake a preachers hand, take a dip in the baptismal waters and show up for church sometimes and proffess to being a Christian. The problem is they don't live according to the bible or biblical teachings. They want to continue living as they had before their confession or try to bring their views and lifestyles into Christianity. Many people I see will argue against sound biblical doctrine to satisfy their own fleshly desires and try to back it up with scripture. It is not only because of what the verse above states but also because they have made a false confession and there has been no visible conversion.
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
The world knoweth us not...hmm. Does the world know you? The world knows many because they are not separate from the world. They still hang onto the things of the world, the worldly things that should have been left behind because of Christ. But they are still being held onto. Many with a true conversion still try to work the world into their beliefs and they never grow in Christ, there may be a feeling that they are growing but by mixing world views with the Christian faith is not true growth.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
What passed away when you accepted Christ? old things, the worldly things. They pass away because they don't have a place with the new you. Once you accept Christ you are a new person, made new through the power of God through Christ. To become new the old has to be done away with. That life has to be discarded along with the things that pertain to that old life, and all things become new.
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
When reading this verse, I thought about the people that I see all the time. Many at my church, that I see daily and some in here. Although I don't agree totally with the term "Carnal Christians" I do see where many people do fit the description of a carnal minded Christian.
Many people walk down and shake a preachers hand, take a dip in the baptismal waters and show up for church sometimes and proffess to being a Christian. The problem is they don't live according to the bible or biblical teachings. They want to continue living as they had before their confession or try to bring their views and lifestyles into Christianity. Many people I see will argue against sound biblical doctrine to satisfy their own fleshly desires and try to back it up with scripture. It is not only because of what the verse above states but also because they have made a false confession and there has been no visible conversion.
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
The world knoweth us not...hmm. Does the world know you? The world knows many because they are not separate from the world. They still hang onto the things of the world, the worldly things that should have been left behind because of Christ. But they are still being held onto. Many with a true conversion still try to work the world into their beliefs and they never grow in Christ, there may be a feeling that they are growing but by mixing world views with the Christian faith is not true growth.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
What passed away when you accepted Christ? old things, the worldly things. They pass away because they don't have a place with the new you. Once you accept Christ you are a new person, made new through the power of God through Christ. To become new the old has to be done away with. That life has to be discarded along with the things that pertain to that old life, and all things become new.
Astrology
Answer to an Astrology question.
It seems that from the very beginning that man has tried to destroy the things of God. Through teachings and myths and twisting of fables and words. Astrology and mysticism, and the old heresies have been combined into the New age movement that we see. Men trying to mold God into their likeness and make him fit into their beliefs. Trying to convince themselves there is a better way, or even a truer way to some form of "enlightenment". Maybe its because if they can fit God into the small scope of their beliefs then they can avoid the judgment. If they can convince themselves in their own mind that God doesn't exist, or at least exist the way the bible teaches, then maybe they can have some kind of peace with their choices. Men have been looking at this and teaching it for ages. But do you know what is important, that the bible has stood the test of time. That it has outlasted and has more followers than any philosophy that man has come up with. There are a few that still believe and teach the "old ways" as you put it, but even in their writings they admit they are not infallible, such as Manly Hall did in the opening pages of his book. Which is nothing more than a combination of all the differing beliefs that were prevalent during his life. And seems to have been the fuel to start the New Age fire that is running rampant today.
2 Timothy 3:1-9
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Paul warned of this when he addressed Timothy, we have been warned that people would come in and try to destroy the truth with their silly fables of the "real truth". See I believe every jot and tittle, I will defend my faith and the truth from people that bring in heresies to try to destroy what God has built. And Paul said that from such, turn away. You see we are a very elect group, Christians, not only do we believe with our hearts but we also have been persuaded in our minds and the truth is testified through the Holy Spirit that has been indwelled in every believer. Through Jesus we have a steadfast and sure salvation that keeps us from having to search vainly through the world to try to find answers to foolishness for a hope of peace in our minds. (I wonder why its always some form of philosophy they flock to) Would God use this Astrology that you are convinced is the root of all. I very seriously doubt it because he has condemned it throughout the bible.
Isaiah 47:13-14
Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
Deuteronomy 4:19
And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Deuteronomy 17:3
And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
Deuteronomy 18:9-12
When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
2 Kings 17:16
And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
Jeremiah 10:2
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Acts 7:42
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Isaiah 8:19-20
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Genesis 1:14-15
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Reading the stars is not a gift for men from God, its not a part of Christianity or Judaism, it has been a form of worship and an object of worship since the beginning. It is a created thing that has been worshiped instead of the creator and like all things that turn man from God, an abomination to Him. It is a god or gods to those that fall into this belief system that condemns men through their acceptance of it and their rejection of Jesus.
I know what your going to say, these verses mean nothing to you, because you don't believe the bible. Well according to Peter you have condemned yourself by rejecting the scriptures. There may not be anything said in here that will probably be enough to make you a "bible thumpin' believer". But we can plant, someone else water, and wait for God to give the increase. If you have taken the time to read any of Hall's work, and I hope that its not the whole basis of your belief, then take a little more time to read the bible.
It seems that from the very beginning that man has tried to destroy the things of God. Through teachings and myths and twisting of fables and words. Astrology and mysticism, and the old heresies have been combined into the New age movement that we see. Men trying to mold God into their likeness and make him fit into their beliefs. Trying to convince themselves there is a better way, or even a truer way to some form of "enlightenment". Maybe its because if they can fit God into the small scope of their beliefs then they can avoid the judgment. If they can convince themselves in their own mind that God doesn't exist, or at least exist the way the bible teaches, then maybe they can have some kind of peace with their choices. Men have been looking at this and teaching it for ages. But do you know what is important, that the bible has stood the test of time. That it has outlasted and has more followers than any philosophy that man has come up with. There are a few that still believe and teach the "old ways" as you put it, but even in their writings they admit they are not infallible, such as Manly Hall did in the opening pages of his book. Which is nothing more than a combination of all the differing beliefs that were prevalent during his life. And seems to have been the fuel to start the New Age fire that is running rampant today.
2 Timothy 3:1-9
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Paul warned of this when he addressed Timothy, we have been warned that people would come in and try to destroy the truth with their silly fables of the "real truth". See I believe every jot and tittle, I will defend my faith and the truth from people that bring in heresies to try to destroy what God has built. And Paul said that from such, turn away. You see we are a very elect group, Christians, not only do we believe with our hearts but we also have been persuaded in our minds and the truth is testified through the Holy Spirit that has been indwelled in every believer. Through Jesus we have a steadfast and sure salvation that keeps us from having to search vainly through the world to try to find answers to foolishness for a hope of peace in our minds. (I wonder why its always some form of philosophy they flock to) Would God use this Astrology that you are convinced is the root of all. I very seriously doubt it because he has condemned it throughout the bible.
Isaiah 47:13-14
Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
Deuteronomy 4:19
And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Deuteronomy 17:3
And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
Deuteronomy 18:9-12
When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
2 Kings 17:16
And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
Jeremiah 10:2
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Acts 7:42
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Isaiah 8:19-20
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Genesis 1:14-15
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Reading the stars is not a gift for men from God, its not a part of Christianity or Judaism, it has been a form of worship and an object of worship since the beginning. It is a created thing that has been worshiped instead of the creator and like all things that turn man from God, an abomination to Him. It is a god or gods to those that fall into this belief system that condemns men through their acceptance of it and their rejection of Jesus.
I know what your going to say, these verses mean nothing to you, because you don't believe the bible. Well according to Peter you have condemned yourself by rejecting the scriptures. There may not be anything said in here that will probably be enough to make you a "bible thumpin' believer". But we can plant, someone else water, and wait for God to give the increase. If you have taken the time to read any of Hall's work, and I hope that its not the whole basis of your belief, then take a little more time to read the bible.
Alcohol
Does it say anything in the bible about alcohol? Does it say anything such as we can drink alcohol but not do get drunk?
This has been preached from pulpits from the beginning of organized religion. Most of the time its taught as a type of personal sin. I have even heard it preached that you could lose your salvation because of drinking (which I do not believe), is a scare tactic that keeps the preachers from having to drag the congregation out of bars.
If you look through the bible you can see that there are verses that show that its OK to drink, and others where it shows that it is not. Both as Christians we should live by a set of standards that should effect the way that we live and present ourselves.
We are told in the bible to avoid drunkeness.
Eph 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Proverbs 23:29-35
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
The effects that alcohol have upon us are varied, many people get mean and angry. I have met some that get silly and comical, others that are friendly and loving, many too loving to the point of being perverted in thoughts and actions. We are warned against allowing ourselves to be under the control and being mastered by anything other than the Holy Spirit. Alcohol can be very addictive and alters your mind and the functions of the body. As with anything that is addictive you become a slave to the effects, this just doesn't mean alcohol but other things as well; drugs, food, and others. We cannot be in control of our "senses" when we allow anything to gain control over us and alter the way we think or act. And even though it won't cause you to lose your salvation, it can become a barrier in your relationship with God. No man can serve two masters, and we must choose which we will follow.
1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Bondage is a powerful tool that the enemy uses to keep you down and from growing as a Christian. It not only can effect you but others around you. It can destroy your testimony, to other Christians and worse, to unbelievers. What you do as a Christian can effect others around you and can be a stumbling block or a reason for excessive liberty which in a younger believer, can lead to living in sin.
1 Corinthians 8:9-13
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
1 Corinthians 10:31-33
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
Romans 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
It would be a terrible thing to have to answer to God because we allowed our liberty to cause a younger brother to fall into sin. Or that another was offended that we allowed ourselves liberty in something that he found offensive. Even though there is a certain liberty that we have, it is clear that that liberty cannot be invoked when it effects others. As Christians we must always be aware that we are being watched by others, believers and unbelievers, as to our walk with Christ. We are to be mentors of younger Christians, students of mature Christians and an example of Christ to unbelievers. Because of these things we are to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in everything that we do, and do all things so that God is glorified and is exalted.
Also I have seen Christians drink and are strong in faith, why is that do you think? I know you cant speak for them but I was wondering why that might be, any ideas?
Many because they are immature and many could be because they do not understand the scriptures. I have seen many weaker Christians drink and many that seem to be mature that drink. Many people try to interpret the scriptures to justify things in their own lives, to show God's approval or at least acceptance for what they do. As I said before we can cause immature Christians to drink when they observe, who they perceive as, a mature Christian drinking. It is sin on both parts according to scripture. A mature Christian can drink and feel that he is at liberty to do so because of a freedom they feel through Christ and an assurance of their salvation. According to the bible this is also wrong. Even though we are told in many places that it is allowed, such in 1 Timothy 5. In the NT, there are reasons to drink wine and they are not for personal enjoyment. I have witnessed personally to others that I knew were out of church and I knew did drink alcohol, many were assured of their salvation. Some knew that they were out of fellowship with God because of the drinking, but they knew that they were saved. I would not be afraid to say that many were more assured of their salvation than many that sit in the pews of my church. Some of them never got over the addiction of alcohol and some turned back to it.
2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Some had become upset for one reason or another and left their churches and turned again to the world for some type of relief that would bring them from reality. Being ignorant of the scriptures and turning to the world instead of God, knowing that it didn't please God. Many know the scriptures and have been in church most of their lives but still choose the world over God.
Can I speak for them? no, because I haven't been there. But I can see how easy it can be to get there, and justify it through scripture. Although it would be justified only to myself. Before I accepted Christ I drank, not a lot but I drank. I didn't like beer or whiskey and I hated the taste of wine. My choice of drink was Tequila and Vodka, and even though its been awhile since I drank either, I still remember what they taste like. And it could be real easy to start drinking again, and feel I could retain my faith. And I know I could put on a show of spirituality and apply a mask to fool others, and live in a world of deceit. And that’s being honest. But I know that it would not please God and that it would not glorify Him, so I have to refrain from falling to the temptation of it, although that temptation has been there before.
As Christians we need to stay away from alcohol for many reasons, as stated above in the scripture. As we need to stay away from many things that are not beneficial too us. We must also remember that even though we have liberty we don't always need to exercise it, because it could have serious repercussions. Anything that can alter the mind and lead our focus away from Jesus and his work is not beneficial in our walk as Christians. Paul said he was a bond slave to Christ which meant that he was not in control, but his life was controlled by Christ through the Holy Spirit. Paul died to the flesh daily, anything that wasn't centered on Jesus didn't matter. I pray that we could all be like minded.
This has been preached from pulpits from the beginning of organized religion. Most of the time its taught as a type of personal sin. I have even heard it preached that you could lose your salvation because of drinking (which I do not believe), is a scare tactic that keeps the preachers from having to drag the congregation out of bars.
If you look through the bible you can see that there are verses that show that its OK to drink, and others where it shows that it is not. Both as Christians we should live by a set of standards that should effect the way that we live and present ourselves.
We are told in the bible to avoid drunkeness.
Eph 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Proverbs 23:29-35
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
The effects that alcohol have upon us are varied, many people get mean and angry. I have met some that get silly and comical, others that are friendly and loving, many too loving to the point of being perverted in thoughts and actions. We are warned against allowing ourselves to be under the control and being mastered by anything other than the Holy Spirit. Alcohol can be very addictive and alters your mind and the functions of the body. As with anything that is addictive you become a slave to the effects, this just doesn't mean alcohol but other things as well; drugs, food, and others. We cannot be in control of our "senses" when we allow anything to gain control over us and alter the way we think or act. And even though it won't cause you to lose your salvation, it can become a barrier in your relationship with God. No man can serve two masters, and we must choose which we will follow.
1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Bondage is a powerful tool that the enemy uses to keep you down and from growing as a Christian. It not only can effect you but others around you. It can destroy your testimony, to other Christians and worse, to unbelievers. What you do as a Christian can effect others around you and can be a stumbling block or a reason for excessive liberty which in a younger believer, can lead to living in sin.
1 Corinthians 8:9-13
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
1 Corinthians 10:31-33
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
Romans 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
It would be a terrible thing to have to answer to God because we allowed our liberty to cause a younger brother to fall into sin. Or that another was offended that we allowed ourselves liberty in something that he found offensive. Even though there is a certain liberty that we have, it is clear that that liberty cannot be invoked when it effects others. As Christians we must always be aware that we are being watched by others, believers and unbelievers, as to our walk with Christ. We are to be mentors of younger Christians, students of mature Christians and an example of Christ to unbelievers. Because of these things we are to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in everything that we do, and do all things so that God is glorified and is exalted.
Also I have seen Christians drink and are strong in faith, why is that do you think? I know you cant speak for them but I was wondering why that might be, any ideas?
Many because they are immature and many could be because they do not understand the scriptures. I have seen many weaker Christians drink and many that seem to be mature that drink. Many people try to interpret the scriptures to justify things in their own lives, to show God's approval or at least acceptance for what they do. As I said before we can cause immature Christians to drink when they observe, who they perceive as, a mature Christian drinking. It is sin on both parts according to scripture. A mature Christian can drink and feel that he is at liberty to do so because of a freedom they feel through Christ and an assurance of their salvation. According to the bible this is also wrong. Even though we are told in many places that it is allowed, such in 1 Timothy 5. In the NT, there are reasons to drink wine and they are not for personal enjoyment. I have witnessed personally to others that I knew were out of church and I knew did drink alcohol, many were assured of their salvation. Some knew that they were out of fellowship with God because of the drinking, but they knew that they were saved. I would not be afraid to say that many were more assured of their salvation than many that sit in the pews of my church. Some of them never got over the addiction of alcohol and some turned back to it.
2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Some had become upset for one reason or another and left their churches and turned again to the world for some type of relief that would bring them from reality. Being ignorant of the scriptures and turning to the world instead of God, knowing that it didn't please God. Many know the scriptures and have been in church most of their lives but still choose the world over God.
Can I speak for them? no, because I haven't been there. But I can see how easy it can be to get there, and justify it through scripture. Although it would be justified only to myself. Before I accepted Christ I drank, not a lot but I drank. I didn't like beer or whiskey and I hated the taste of wine. My choice of drink was Tequila and Vodka, and even though its been awhile since I drank either, I still remember what they taste like. And it could be real easy to start drinking again, and feel I could retain my faith. And I know I could put on a show of spirituality and apply a mask to fool others, and live in a world of deceit. And that’s being honest. But I know that it would not please God and that it would not glorify Him, so I have to refrain from falling to the temptation of it, although that temptation has been there before.
As Christians we need to stay away from alcohol for many reasons, as stated above in the scripture. As we need to stay away from many things that are not beneficial too us. We must also remember that even though we have liberty we don't always need to exercise it, because it could have serious repercussions. Anything that can alter the mind and lead our focus away from Jesus and his work is not beneficial in our walk as Christians. Paul said he was a bond slave to Christ which meant that he was not in control, but his life was controlled by Christ through the Holy Spirit. Paul died to the flesh daily, anything that wasn't centered on Jesus didn't matter. I pray that we could all be like minded.
Witnessing to an Agnostic
How do you witness to an Agnostic?
Witnessing to an agnostic is much the same as witnessing to an atheist. In order to be effective you have to get past their intellect. The biggest obstacle there is, is their belief that they are more intelligent than you are. Most will not confess that there is no God, but that they don't know if there is a God or not. They look at the negative things that happen in the world; wars, famine, disease, and natural disasters and try to believe in their minds that this loving God that Christians say is in control, could have and should have prevented it. They don't understand that even though He is a loving God that he is also a holy and a just God that allows things to happen for reasons that is beyond our intellect.
This is where the problem with Agnostics come strongly against our efforts on witnessing to them. We hit them with the "you just have to have faith" message and they dismiss it because in their minds they can't comprehend it. I'm not saying that a Christians aren't as intellectually fit as an agnostics', but we have gotten past the scientific and mathematical thinking that is thrust at us from grade school, into high school and then college. To an agnostic it all has to be a Spock type logic, if it isn't logical and we can't fit it in scientifically or mathematically then most people have trouble understanding it. In order to get them to understand the Gospel and the entire Bible as truth you have to get them to understand that logical equations are not always the answer. You have to reach past the logic to grasp the illogical. It is not logical that God would give His Son for our sins and would let Him die on the cross. It is not logical that He offers us the free gift of salvation at no cost to us. It is not logical that a God that is in control of the universe is concerned about His children on an individual level.
Just because they don't agree with something doesn't mean that it isn't so. This is the angle they can't argue with, but will try. We have heard the wind analogy, even though you can't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there. That is a good place to start and they will even try to excuse it but you can go deeper. To me it is a difference between what is real and what you believe. I don't believe in abortion, but 3,000 are being performed everyday. Just because I don't believe in them doesn't mean its not a reality of life and is not true. Many people do not believe in the death penalty but even if they don't believe in it doesn't mean that if the commit a serious enough crime they will not go to the electric chair. To me abortion is not logical, but I have to face the fact that it is a reality. To many that are on death row, the death penalty is not logical, but that still does not negate the fact that they have been sentenced and will die in the electric chair or by lethal injection. I am not saying that God is not logical and that those that believe in Him are not logical. But to the scientific thinking mind it seems illogical to believe in a God that you can't see or make Himself known in a mighty way, because it doesn't fit in a mathematical sense.
To them 6 x 7 = 42 instead of 6 x 9 = 42. (Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe) Logic says that 6 x 7 = 42 and always will, but according to the show 6 x 9 = 42, why you ask? Because we have to understand that in order for it to work it has to be figured like this 6/b13 x 9/b13 = 42/b13. Normal understanding of mathematical logic has to be sidelined in order for the equation to make sense. Instead of working in base 10, where our minds usually work, we have to move into base 13. Still logical scientifically and mathematically but not in the way our minds have been taught to perceive things. Sorry if this is a little confusing. Don't forget your towel!!!
Every agnostic that I ever ran across had a different reason as to their beliefs, and it is an independent belief system, because each one is different. And each one has to be dealt with on an individual level. Each one is based upon a set of ideas that they have in their mind that helps them to eliminate God from their lives. And each one has a different order and a different one at the top of the list. I could be death of a loved one, or loss of a job. A spouse leaving for someone else, or even an illness that afflicts them or another. Each one is different and each one has to be responded to differently. But all will try to use a logical approach as to why they don't believe in God, to try to prove to themselves and to you that He doesn't exist. But I have found that even though it sounds that they are trying to convince you, they are only trying to reaffirm their own ideas and beliefs, because they know that they cannot convince a true Christian.
When Plato went to see Socrates (before his execution) he was convinced of life after death. He noticed that everything moved in cycles; plants, trees, seasons. If man, when he died, just ceased to exist then he would be the only thing created that doesn't continue in a cycle. Nothing ceased to exist just continue in another form. Plato made this argument from nature, he knew and believed that Socrates would continue just not in a earthly form. And even scripture speaks of this:
1 Corinthians 15:35-36
But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Another example that I use in my book is of a forest fire. (condensed) Some can be told of a fire and believe that it is true. Some have to smell the smoke to believe that its true. Some have to see the flames to believe its true. But there are others that will not believe until they get burned by the flames. This could be used to categorize people and most agnostics and atheists are in this last category and I am afraid that many will have to feel the flames before they believe and then it would be too late. All we can do is witness to them the best that we can and share the Gospel, they may get mad when we do, but we know we will be hated and persecuted for His sake. Some of us plant seeds, others water and then God will give the increase.
I will leave you with this from James Orr from the 1930's
Five Question Method.
A. Are you sure there is no God? If No: “Then you are not classic atheist, you’re an agnostic.” (you simply don't know if there is a God) If Yes: jump to question C (#3).
B. Are you an “open-minded” agnostic or a “close-minded” agnostic? Closed: means…you absolutely can't know if there's a God. Open: means you simply don't know if there's a God. (Most will say “open minded”. Even atheists don’t want to come off as “closed-minded”. No matter which one they answer, proceed to question C/#3.)
C. How much of the world's total knowledge do you possess? (anything more than about 1-3%
would be a ludicrous answer!!)
D. Isn't it possible that God could exist outside of your realm of knowledge? Illustration: Say you are blind, and are obviously unable to see the Big Dipper…does it still exist? Just because you haven’t experienced it/can't see it doesn’t mean that it doesn't exist.
E. If there were a God, would you be willing to do whatever is necessary to know Him (this God)? From here go into whatever gospel approach you typically use to share Jesus with someone.
Hope this helps some. If you need anything more please let me know.
Witnessing to an agnostic is much the same as witnessing to an atheist. In order to be effective you have to get past their intellect. The biggest obstacle there is, is their belief that they are more intelligent than you are. Most will not confess that there is no God, but that they don't know if there is a God or not. They look at the negative things that happen in the world; wars, famine, disease, and natural disasters and try to believe in their minds that this loving God that Christians say is in control, could have and should have prevented it. They don't understand that even though He is a loving God that he is also a holy and a just God that allows things to happen for reasons that is beyond our intellect.
This is where the problem with Agnostics come strongly against our efforts on witnessing to them. We hit them with the "you just have to have faith" message and they dismiss it because in their minds they can't comprehend it. I'm not saying that a Christians aren't as intellectually fit as an agnostics', but we have gotten past the scientific and mathematical thinking that is thrust at us from grade school, into high school and then college. To an agnostic it all has to be a Spock type logic, if it isn't logical and we can't fit it in scientifically or mathematically then most people have trouble understanding it. In order to get them to understand the Gospel and the entire Bible as truth you have to get them to understand that logical equations are not always the answer. You have to reach past the logic to grasp the illogical. It is not logical that God would give His Son for our sins and would let Him die on the cross. It is not logical that He offers us the free gift of salvation at no cost to us. It is not logical that a God that is in control of the universe is concerned about His children on an individual level.
Just because they don't agree with something doesn't mean that it isn't so. This is the angle they can't argue with, but will try. We have heard the wind analogy, even though you can't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there. That is a good place to start and they will even try to excuse it but you can go deeper. To me it is a difference between what is real and what you believe. I don't believe in abortion, but 3,000 are being performed everyday. Just because I don't believe in them doesn't mean its not a reality of life and is not true. Many people do not believe in the death penalty but even if they don't believe in it doesn't mean that if the commit a serious enough crime they will not go to the electric chair. To me abortion is not logical, but I have to face the fact that it is a reality. To many that are on death row, the death penalty is not logical, but that still does not negate the fact that they have been sentenced and will die in the electric chair or by lethal injection. I am not saying that God is not logical and that those that believe in Him are not logical. But to the scientific thinking mind it seems illogical to believe in a God that you can't see or make Himself known in a mighty way, because it doesn't fit in a mathematical sense.
To them 6 x 7 = 42 instead of 6 x 9 = 42. (Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe) Logic says that 6 x 7 = 42 and always will, but according to the show 6 x 9 = 42, why you ask? Because we have to understand that in order for it to work it has to be figured like this 6/b13 x 9/b13 = 42/b13. Normal understanding of mathematical logic has to be sidelined in order for the equation to make sense. Instead of working in base 10, where our minds usually work, we have to move into base 13. Still logical scientifically and mathematically but not in the way our minds have been taught to perceive things. Sorry if this is a little confusing. Don't forget your towel!!!
Every agnostic that I ever ran across had a different reason as to their beliefs, and it is an independent belief system, because each one is different. And each one has to be dealt with on an individual level. Each one is based upon a set of ideas that they have in their mind that helps them to eliminate God from their lives. And each one has a different order and a different one at the top of the list. I could be death of a loved one, or loss of a job. A spouse leaving for someone else, or even an illness that afflicts them or another. Each one is different and each one has to be responded to differently. But all will try to use a logical approach as to why they don't believe in God, to try to prove to themselves and to you that He doesn't exist. But I have found that even though it sounds that they are trying to convince you, they are only trying to reaffirm their own ideas and beliefs, because they know that they cannot convince a true Christian.
When Plato went to see Socrates (before his execution) he was convinced of life after death. He noticed that everything moved in cycles; plants, trees, seasons. If man, when he died, just ceased to exist then he would be the only thing created that doesn't continue in a cycle. Nothing ceased to exist just continue in another form. Plato made this argument from nature, he knew and believed that Socrates would continue just not in a earthly form. And even scripture speaks of this:
1 Corinthians 15:35-36
But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Another example that I use in my book is of a forest fire. (condensed) Some can be told of a fire and believe that it is true. Some have to smell the smoke to believe that its true. Some have to see the flames to believe its true. But there are others that will not believe until they get burned by the flames. This could be used to categorize people and most agnostics and atheists are in this last category and I am afraid that many will have to feel the flames before they believe and then it would be too late. All we can do is witness to them the best that we can and share the Gospel, they may get mad when we do, but we know we will be hated and persecuted for His sake. Some of us plant seeds, others water and then God will give the increase.
I will leave you with this from James Orr from the 1930's
Five Question Method.
A. Are you sure there is no God? If No: “Then you are not classic atheist, you’re an agnostic.” (you simply don't know if there is a God) If Yes: jump to question C (#3).
B. Are you an “open-minded” agnostic or a “close-minded” agnostic? Closed: means…you absolutely can't know if there's a God. Open: means you simply don't know if there's a God. (Most will say “open minded”. Even atheists don’t want to come off as “closed-minded”. No matter which one they answer, proceed to question C/#3.)
C. How much of the world's total knowledge do you possess? (anything more than about 1-3%
would be a ludicrous answer!!)
D. Isn't it possible that God could exist outside of your realm of knowledge? Illustration: Say you are blind, and are obviously unable to see the Big Dipper…does it still exist? Just because you haven’t experienced it/can't see it doesn’t mean that it doesn't exist.
E. If there were a God, would you be willing to do whatever is necessary to know Him (this God)? From here go into whatever gospel approach you typically use to share Jesus with someone.
Hope this helps some. If you need anything more please let me know.
Thursday, March 24, 2011
Age of Accountability
What is the age of accountability?
"The Age of Accountability" is an inferred doctrine (more theological stuff) that some Christians believe, but then again it all depends on the denomination and what they have been taught. It is believed that it is deduced from reasoning of the evidence presented in the bible. From verses such as the one in 2 Samuel along with others.
John 9:39-41
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? ; Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Romans 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
I do not so much believe in an age of accountability, as I do the mental state of accountability. That is the state of a person mentally to know that there are consequences of their actions pertaining to sin. This not only covers age but also, various types of mental disorders. The mind must be able to judge the difference between right and wrong, or right and sin. They must be of the mental state to be able to determine that there is punishment for wrong doing in the eyes of God. Most children know what is wrong because they have been punished for the action. Example, a two year old will know not to touch a vase on a coffee table, but only after they have been punished for it. And usually after a few hand swats they learn that if they touch it they will be in trouble. The same with a flame on a candle, they learn not to touch it after they get burned. Older children and some adults will know not to touch a vase on a table after they are just told not to touch it, before any punishment is given. I see a difference between knowing wrong by experience and knowing wrong by instruction. Handicapped people in an impaired mental state could not ever know the difference between right and wrong, depending on the severity of the handicap. Like others, I feel that a loving God allows for these mental states.
Other religions such as the Jewish people believe that children are not responsible for their actions until they reach a certain age, 13 for boys and 12 for girls. This is the age of accountability according to their belief system, until then they are the responsibility of their fathers. (I had to throw this in)
Another example of accountability, from my point of view, is a person being responsible for their sins when their mental state has deteriorated to the point that they are no longer conscience of what they do. Many that refute the age of accountability, believe that a loving God will forgive the senile for sins because they don't know that what they are doing is wrong. Again this is inferred doctrine.
The age where a child is accountable to God for their actions pertaining to sin will vary according to their understanding. All my children were saved at a young age, because they understood what sin was. For my daughter it was at age 7 when she was accountable to God.
"The Age of Accountability" is an inferred doctrine (more theological stuff) that some Christians believe, but then again it all depends on the denomination and what they have been taught. It is believed that it is deduced from reasoning of the evidence presented in the bible. From verses such as the one in 2 Samuel along with others.
John 9:39-41
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? ; Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Romans 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
I do not so much believe in an age of accountability, as I do the mental state of accountability. That is the state of a person mentally to know that there are consequences of their actions pertaining to sin. This not only covers age but also, various types of mental disorders. The mind must be able to judge the difference between right and wrong, or right and sin. They must be of the mental state to be able to determine that there is punishment for wrong doing in the eyes of God. Most children know what is wrong because they have been punished for the action. Example, a two year old will know not to touch a vase on a coffee table, but only after they have been punished for it. And usually after a few hand swats they learn that if they touch it they will be in trouble. The same with a flame on a candle, they learn not to touch it after they get burned. Older children and some adults will know not to touch a vase on a table after they are just told not to touch it, before any punishment is given. I see a difference between knowing wrong by experience and knowing wrong by instruction. Handicapped people in an impaired mental state could not ever know the difference between right and wrong, depending on the severity of the handicap. Like others, I feel that a loving God allows for these mental states.
Other religions such as the Jewish people believe that children are not responsible for their actions until they reach a certain age, 13 for boys and 12 for girls. This is the age of accountability according to their belief system, until then they are the responsibility of their fathers. (I had to throw this in)
Another example of accountability, from my point of view, is a person being responsible for their sins when their mental state has deteriorated to the point that they are no longer conscience of what they do. Many that refute the age of accountability, believe that a loving God will forgive the senile for sins because they don't know that what they are doing is wrong. Again this is inferred doctrine.
The age where a child is accountable to God for their actions pertaining to sin will vary according to their understanding. All my children were saved at a young age, because they understood what sin was. For my daughter it was at age 7 when she was accountable to God.
Abortion
When does God consider a Child alive?
When God considers a child alive.
"In the womb he took his brother by the heel..." Hosea 12:3
"Upon Thee I have been cast from my birth; Thou art my God from my mother's womb." Psalm 22:10
"And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." Luke 1:14-15
"Listen, O isles, unto me, and hearken, ye peoples, from far: the LORD hath called me from the womb, from the bowels of my mother hath He made mention of my name .... And now saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, and that Israel be gathered unto Him--for I am honourable in the eyes of the LORD, and my God is become my strength..." Isaiah 49:1, 5
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:41,42
"Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?" Ezekiel 16:20,21
"And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations." Jeremiah 1:4-5
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger." Genesis 25:23
"And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." Exo 21:22-25
"Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?" Ezekiel 16:20,21
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the wind, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child; even so thou knowest not the work of God who doeth all things." Ecclesiastes 11:5
God considers life, not only in the womb, but even before conception. God considers life precious.
According to statistics compiled by AGI from
REASONS FOR ABORTIONS: COMPILED ESTIMATES
rape 0.3 % (0.1-0.6 %)
incest 0.03 % (0.01-0.1 %)
physical life of mother 0.2 % (0.1-0.3 %)
physical health of mother 1.0 % (0.1-3 %)
fetal health 0.5 % (0.1-1.0 %)
mental health of mother depends on definition
"personal choice" 98% (78-99 %)
--too young/immature/not ready for responsibility --(32 %)
--economic --30% (21-36 %)
--to avoid adjusting life --(16 %)
--mother single or in poor relationship --(12-13 %)
--enough children already --(4-8 %)
--sex selection --(<0.1 %)
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html#9
Others sources that I found also said that less than 1 percent is due to incest or rape. Low numbers are also given for health of the mother and and fetal health.
High percentages are given for personal reasons. These are reasons other than health reasons or emotional such as rape or incest. Selfish reasons where no protection was used because they can always fix it later. Abortion under the guise of "freedom of choice" for women has become the birth control of the last three decades. And since it is legal for any reason, it has clouded moral reasoning and responsibilities to life. The first free choice women make is (1st) to ignore life situations; financial, marital status, loosing personal freedom or age. (2nd) to have unprotected sexual contact. (3rd) to take care of the consequences later. Their first choice should be to access the situation and to act accordingly, before the choice to terminate a life. Many a child has been killed because of a poor choice from the beginning.
Children are being sacrificed daily because they would conflict with the lifestyles of the mother. They are being sacrificed because people place their individual pleasures, ideas and lifestyles above all else and all others. To them they are their own gods manipulating situations to suit their own pleasure.
I am saddened that people allow their morals to move from the word of God toward a view set by worldly values. The world doesn't contain morality nor does it teach morals, morality comes only from the word of God.
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Our opinions and views are not to be set by what the world sees as normal, but what God say's is normal. When we align with the world then the world knows us, when we align with God then the world knows us not.
When God considers a child alive.
"In the womb he took his brother by the heel..." Hosea 12:3
"Upon Thee I have been cast from my birth; Thou art my God from my mother's womb." Psalm 22:10
"And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." Luke 1:14-15
"Listen, O isles, unto me, and hearken, ye peoples, from far: the LORD hath called me from the womb, from the bowels of my mother hath He made mention of my name .... And now saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, and that Israel be gathered unto Him--for I am honourable in the eyes of the LORD, and my God is become my strength..." Isaiah 49:1, 5
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:41,42
"Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?" Ezekiel 16:20,21
"And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations." Jeremiah 1:4-5
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger." Genesis 25:23
"And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." Exo 21:22-25
"Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?" Ezekiel 16:20,21
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the wind, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child; even so thou knowest not the work of God who doeth all things." Ecclesiastes 11:5
God considers life, not only in the womb, but even before conception. God considers life precious.
According to statistics compiled by AGI from
REASONS FOR ABORTIONS: COMPILED ESTIMATES
rape 0.3 % (0.1-0.6 %)
incest 0.03 % (0.01-0.1 %)
physical life of mother 0.2 % (0.1-0.3 %)
physical health of mother 1.0 % (0.1-3 %)
fetal health 0.5 % (0.1-1.0 %)
mental health of mother depends on definition
"personal choice" 98% (78-99 %)
--too young/immature/not ready for responsibility --(32 %)
--economic --30% (21-36 %)
--to avoid adjusting life --(16 %)
--mother single or in poor relationship --(12-13 %)
--enough children already --(4-8 %)
--sex selection --(<0.1 %)
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html#9
Others sources that I found also said that less than 1 percent is due to incest or rape. Low numbers are also given for health of the mother and and fetal health.
High percentages are given for personal reasons. These are reasons other than health reasons or emotional such as rape or incest. Selfish reasons where no protection was used because they can always fix it later. Abortion under the guise of "freedom of choice" for women has become the birth control of the last three decades. And since it is legal for any reason, it has clouded moral reasoning and responsibilities to life. The first free choice women make is (1st) to ignore life situations; financial, marital status, loosing personal freedom or age. (2nd) to have unprotected sexual contact. (3rd) to take care of the consequences later. Their first choice should be to access the situation and to act accordingly, before the choice to terminate a life. Many a child has been killed because of a poor choice from the beginning.
Children are being sacrificed daily because they would conflict with the lifestyles of the mother. They are being sacrificed because people place their individual pleasures, ideas and lifestyles above all else and all others. To them they are their own gods manipulating situations to suit their own pleasure.
I am saddened that people allow their morals to move from the word of God toward a view set by worldly values. The world doesn't contain morality nor does it teach morals, morality comes only from the word of God.
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Our opinions and views are not to be set by what the world sees as normal, but what God say's is normal. When we align with the world then the world knows us, when we align with God then the world knows us not.
Who is 'The Mad Baptist'
The word 'MAD' holds different meanings, while Baptist holds only one. As mad I will admit that I do have a marked desire or enthusiasm for the true Gospel and in this I am not ashamed of my Savior. Sometimes I do get carried away in anger at the churches today and the apostasy that is so prevalent around us.
A Baptist emphasizes a believer's baptism by full immersion, in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which is performed after a profession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I am therefore a mad baptist because of my denominational beliefs and my adherence to those beliefs. I am by association and doctrine Southern Baptist. ( to see what we believe read the Baptist Faith and Message ) http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp
My posts will be aimed toward many of the things affecting the church today and many teachings that come from out of the pulpits. I will post the answers to questions here that deal with many areas of the bible, doctrines and tenets of belief. Many of the questions come from forums, which I am associated with, as an administrator. Some of the questions come from people that I know personally. I will also post thoughts and ramblings from my personal studies as well as sermon notes and outlines I use.
All though I am called of God to share the Gospel, which I believe is of the utmost importance, my desire and burden is for the people that sit in the pews. I have a burden for those that lack spiritual maturity and are willing to learn. The spiritual children that need to grow into spiritually mature adults. Honest teachings that can help others grow into responsible adults in the body of Christ.
As I have said I am conservative, both as a Baptist and politically, this will be evident as you read the posts.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact me, I will provide an answer for all questions I receive.
A Baptist emphasizes a believer's baptism by full immersion, in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which is performed after a profession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I am therefore a mad baptist because of my denominational beliefs and my adherence to those beliefs. I am by association and doctrine Southern Baptist. ( to see what we believe read the Baptist Faith and Message ) http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp
My posts will be aimed toward many of the things affecting the church today and many teachings that come from out of the pulpits. I will post the answers to questions here that deal with many areas of the bible, doctrines and tenets of belief. Many of the questions come from forums, which I am associated with, as an administrator. Some of the questions come from people that I know personally. I will also post thoughts and ramblings from my personal studies as well as sermon notes and outlines I use.
All though I am called of God to share the Gospel, which I believe is of the utmost importance, my desire and burden is for the people that sit in the pews. I have a burden for those that lack spiritual maturity and are willing to learn. The spiritual children that need to grow into spiritually mature adults. Honest teachings that can help others grow into responsible adults in the body of Christ.
As I have said I am conservative, both as a Baptist and politically, this will be evident as you read the posts.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact me, I will provide an answer for all questions I receive.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)